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 Abhidhamma

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Dinesh




PostSubject: Abhidhamma   Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:27 pm

Somebody (especially so called educated people) says that abhidhamma has not been taught by the Lord Buddha. Is it true or not? If anybody has proof from tipitakaya either to confirm it or not to confirm it plese publish here.

Theruwan Saranai!
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PostSubject: Re: Abhidhamma   Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:11 am


Dinesh, do you know, some people say sutta pitaka is also not a "buddha bhashita". Some people say the meaning of Tipitaka is only a three pages book and it cannot exsist. There are lot of arguments about Buddha Vachana. Not only Abhidamma but also Sutta and Vinaya, they say lotof things. Some people say Buddha is not a real person and Hell "Niraya" is not real. Did you hear those..? You should be.

We can't critisize Dhamma without learning it. Therefore Dinesh, learn Sutta, Vinaya and Abhidhamma and if you need compare them with Suttas and Suttanuloma (Maha Padesa Sutta - AN 2) then you can decide. There is not any usage of an argument without knowing Tipitaka well. Its only a empty talk.

"Kalena Dhamma Sakacca Etam Mangala Muttamam"

Theruwan Saranai

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Dinesh




PostSubject: Re: Abhidhamma   Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:14 pm

Dear DhFriend, I really appreciate your advice. Actually I wanted neither to critisize nor to begin an argunent about "Buddha Bhashitha". Instead I wanted to know what the truth is.

The books I have ever red about abhidhamma are "Abhidharmaye Mulika Karunu" and " Abhidharma Margaya" by Ven Rerukane Chandavimala Thero. Even though we can find books of Sutta pitaka it's rather difficult to find books of Abhidhamma pitakaya and Vinaya pitakaya. So it would be really helpful for me if anybody can direct me for these books (soft or hard copy).

Theruwan saranai!


Last edited by Dinesh on Thu Mar 26, 2009 5:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Sarani

Sarani


PostSubject: Re: Abhidhamma   Thu Mar 26, 2009 4:30 pm

I think, after reading several times Sutta Pitaka read Abhidhamma Pitaka. Try out to improve your Sraddha about Buddha. When we nourish Vichikichcha we can't choose which one is correct. Because Buddha is the better teacher forever not us. Therefore we can't challenge any part of unvahanse's teachings at least without knowing Tipitaka.

We had had to leave this dhamma because of this Vichikichcha in our Samsara. Most of Buddhists like to know which part is true..but they don't try to learn and realize Tipitaka. We can't move in to grade five rejecting the attendence of grade one, two, three, four in schools. Then no more talks about AL.

Therefore, friends first you read Sutta Pitaka and try to realize it and then you can try others but if you like...!
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Dinesh




PostSubject: Re: Abhidhamma   Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:15 pm

Dear Sarani, I also believe that the lord Buddha is the greatest teacher forever and nobody can challenge His teaching. I appreciate your advice of improving Sraddha.

But Sarani, in order to improve sraddha we should know or learn about Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha. Sometimes when we are learning we have to question, haven’t we? So my purpose of questioning is only to improve my knowledge not to make arguments. I don’t think that questioning for learning can be defined as Vichikichcha. You can correct me if I am wrong.

I think, learning Tipitakaya should be done simultaneously because if we are waiting to learn Abhidhamma after reading several times Sutta Pitakaya we will have no time to learn Abhidhamma as we all know we have very short life time. Further, when it is done simultaneously each Pitakaya will help us to understand other two Pitakaya.

However I am grateful to your reply.

Theruwan Saranai!
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Sarani

Sarani


PostSubject: Re: Abhidhamma   Sat Mar 28, 2009 3:14 am

Dear Dinesh, Did you read at least one pitaka completely yet. Can you explain me that what Buddha said as 'Anupubbakatha' in Unvahanse's Sermons..?
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Dinesh




PostSubject: Re: Abhidhamma   Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:42 pm

Dear Sarani! I haven't read any Pitaka completely and it seems as if you knew what Anupubbakatha is. So I invite you to explain it so that others can understand it.

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Sarani

Sarani


PostSubject: Re: Abhidhamma   Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:37 am

Dinesh wrote:
Dear Sarani! I haven't read any Pitaka completely and it seems as if you knew what Anupubbakatha is. So I invite you to explain it so that others can understand it.

Theruwan Saranai!


Dear Dinesh Ayiya, There are lot of sutta deshanas about this anupubba kata. Here you can read it both pali and sinhala. But this is in Sinhala Unicode.

අථ ඛො භගවා බ්‍රහ්‌මායුස්‌ස බ්‍රාහ්‌මණස්‌ස අනුපුබ්‌බිං කථං කථෙසි, සෙය්‍යථිදං – දානකථං, සීලකථං, සග්‌ගකථං; කාමානං ආදීනවං ඔකාරං සංකිලෙසං නෙක්‌ඛම්‌මෙ ආනිසංසං පකාසෙසි. යදා භගවා අඤ්‌ඤාසි බ්‍රහ්‌මායුං බ්‍රාහ්‌මණං කල්‌ලචිත්‌තං මුදුචිත්‌තං විනීවරණචිත්‌තං උදග්‌ගචිත්‌තං පසන්‌නචිත්‌තං, අථ යා බුද්‌ධානං සාමුක්‌කංසිකා ධම්‌මදෙසනා තං පකාසෙසි – දුක්‌ඛං, සමුදයං, නිරොධං, මග්‌ගං. සෙය්‍යථාපි නාම සුද්‌ධං වත්‌ථං අපගතකාළකං සම්‌මදෙව රජනං පටිග්‌ගණ්‌හෙය්‍ය, එවමෙව බ්‍රහ්‌මායුස්‌ස බ්‍රාහ්‌මණස්‌ස තස්‌මිංයෙව ආසනෙ විරජං වීතමලං ධම්‌මචක්‌ඛුං උදපාදි – ‘‘යං කිඤ්‌චි සමුදයධම්‌මං සබ්‌බං තං නිරොධධම්‌ම’’න්‌ති.

එවිට භාග්‍යවතුන් වහන්සේ බ්‍රහ්මායු බ්‍රාහ්මණයා හට අනුපිළිවෙල කතාව වදාළ සේක. ඒ කියන්නේ දන් දීම ගැන කතාව, සිල් රැකීම ගැන කතාව, ස්වර්ගෝත්පත්තිය ගැන කතාව, කාමයන් ගේ ආදීනවය ගැන කතාව, කෙලෙස් වල ඇති ලාමක බව ගැන කතාව, කෙලෙසුන් ගෙන් නික්මීමේ ආනිසංස ගැන කතාව වදාළා. ඉතින් යම් විටෙක භාග්‍යවතුන් වහන්සේ බ්‍රහ්මායු බ්‍රාහ්මණයා තුළ සකස් වූ සිතක්, මෘදු සිතක්, නීවරණ රහිත සිතක්, ඔද වැඩුණු සිතක්, ප්‍රසන්න වූ සිතක් ඇති වුණු බව දැන වදාළ සේක් ද, එවිට බුදුවරයන් වහන්සේලා ගේ යම් සාමුක්කංසික දේශනාවක් ඇද්ද, ඒ දුක්ඛ, සමුදය, නිරෝධ, මාර්ග යන චතුරාර්ය සත්‍යය දේශනාව වදාළා. එය කිළුටු නැති සුදු වස්ත්‍රයක් මැනවින් සායම් කළා වගෙයි. ඒ ආකාරයෙන් ම බ්‍රහ්මායු බ්‍රාහ්මණයා හට ඒ ආසනයේ දී ම ‛හේතු ප්‍රත්‍යයන් ගෙන් හටගන්නා වූ යම් දෙයක් ඇද්ද, ඒ හේතූන් නිරුද්ධ වීමෙන් හට ගත් සියල්ල නිරුද්ධ වී යන ස්වභාවයෙන් යුක්ත’ බවට කෙලෙස් රහිත වූ, අවිද්‍යා රහිත වූ දහම් ඇස පහළ වුණා.


Brahmayu Sutraya - MN 2

Anupubba katawa nam,
dan dima gena, Sil rekima gena, Sugathi upatha gena, kamayange adinawaya gena, keles wala ethi lamaka bawa gena, kelesungen nikmime anisansa gena, yana adi wasayen piliwela kathawa kota in pasu chathurarya sathyaya darmaya deshana kirimai.

me poduwe budun wahanse daham desu akarayai. me athare Bahiya daruchiriya, Pukkusathi weni aya arabaya kelinma geburu darmaya deshana kota thibe. me deshana waladi, bahiya himiyan Bahiya Sutraye adangu karunu srawanaya kota nuwanin wimasimen arahathwayata path una. un wahanseta Abhidarmayak srawanaya kirimata tharam jiwitha kalayakda thibune ne. Chulla panthaka himiyantada esemaya. un wahanse dharmaya awabodha kala akaraya Dinesh ayiyata mathaka ethi.

Abhidarmaya gena eda sita mathawada thibenawa. namuth kawadawath Suthra deshana buddha basithayakda nedda kiya me tharam darunuwata mathawada pena negila ne. pena negunanam negune sutra desana nokiyawapu kenek nikan sekayata kiyana bolada kathandarayak thulin pamanai. Abhidarmaya mama prathiksepa karanawa newei. mama kiyanne me kisideyak hariyata igena ganne nethuwa apita samajaye eka ekkena kiyana dewal walin Buddha Deshanawa maninna giyoth eka loku paapayak wenawa.

e wagema mama oyata kiyanne ne e nisama deshana kiyawanna kiyala. Api mehema hithamu ayiya. Api abhidharmaya piligatthath nethath oyath mamath Dhammachakka suthraya piligannawane. e wagema mama hithanne oya sathi pattana suthrayath piligannawa ethi. e desanawala thiyenne etthak ne ayiya. chathurarya sathyaya etthak. e mulma deshanawa devivaruth ehuwa. ekkenek sothapanna una. e wagema e pas dena arahathwayata path une Ananthalakkana suthraya ahalai. sathipattane thiyenne ekayana niwan margaya. eke anthimata thiyenawa me tika karanawa nam ekko arahathwayata path wenawa nethnam Anagami wenawa kiyala. me Suthra deshana ayiya.

minissu awaboda kala kiyala wisthara sahithawa thiyenne suthra pitakaye. Abhidarmaya deshana kala kiyanneth minissunta newei ne. eth eka nam Abidarma pitakaye wath ne. eka desana kale katada kiyala abidarma pitakaye sadahan wela ne. awaboda kala aya genath ne. eth mama kiyanne eka apita pramanawath ne buddha desanawak newei kiyanna. e nisa mekedi getalu mathu una. boho aya wada karagattha. waada karanna beri suthra pitakaya petthaka thiyeddi eka awaboda karaganne nethuwa waada wiwaada witharai egena thibbe.

Abidarmaye thiyena godak dewal therum ganna nam hoda suthra denumak thiyenna one. e nisa oya ta mama kiyanne prasna nethi suthra desana kiyawaa igena ganna. Api divya loke giya kaaleka Abhidarmaya Mathru Divya rajayagenma ahala igena gamu.

Eth ithin, pin karana heti gena daanaya gena, hodata wisthara udaharana ethiwa suthra pitakaye thiyena nisa eka nokiyawath no denagenath awabodayen pin karannath bene. mokada ekaparatama apita "Sasankarika Chitta" "Asankaarika Chitta" gena kiwwata dan denna hithenneth nene.

e nisa piliwelata yamu. Api Pukkusatilawath Bahiyalawath newei ne. Buddha desanawa hariyata dena gamu. Oyata prasnayak thiye nam ahanna kamak ne. mama ida thiyena widiyata liyannam.

Theruwan Saranai
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Dinesh




PostSubject: Re: Abhidhamma   Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:21 pm

Dear Sarani, Mulinma oyata godak pin dharmaya visthara kireemata mansiweema gena.

Namuth mata yamak kiyanna thiyenawa.

"Api Pukkusatilawath Bahiyalawath newei ne." E nisama apita dharmaya gena wediyen denagathauthu wenawa. mokada apita me kalaye anupiliwela kathawa ha samukkansika deshanawa Budu muwin asannata nolabena nisa. ma asa ethi satiyata samukkansika deshanawa kala hekke Sambudu warayanan wahanselata pamanai (oyata mawa niwaredikaranna puluwan).

Thawa deyak, apata abhidharmaya therum ganna sutta pitakaya udau wenawa wagema sutta pitakaya therumganna abhidharmaya udauwenawa.

Sarani, oyata puluwannam ma mehi wenath thenaka asa ethi mahabhoota gena penayata pilithurak denna mokada mata thawama eyata pilithurak sutta pitakayen soyagatha nohekiuna.


Note:- mata sinhala unicode kiyawanna puluwan. e nisa oyata newatha englishwalin type karanna awashya wenne nehe.

Theruwan Saranai!
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Nethra




PostSubject: Re: Abhidhamma   Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:25 pm

May be it is too late to post an answer. Sometimes may be helpful.

For your first question, “Some are saying that Abhidhamma is not a Buddhabhashithaya”, What I can say is, it is well known that after the first “Sangayana” Abhidhamma Pitaka has made including 7 books (modules) as Dhammasangani, Wibhanga,Kathawaththu, Dhatukatha, Puggalapannapthi, Yamaka, Pattana. But it does not mean that it has not explained by Buddha. As Buddha’s biography at first Buddha explained Abhidhamma to “Mathru Dewya Rajaya” (Mahamaya Devi, Price Sidhartha’s Mother in his previous life) in Thwthisa dewlawa. After that Arhat Sariputta has explained Abhidhamma, which Buddha said, to other monks.

To make studying easily it has separated as another “Pitakaya” but most of the facts, which there are ,can be found in Suttas in Sutta Pikaya. Ex: Deega Nikaya- Sangeethi, Dasuththra Sutta.

Your next question is about Mahabootha Rupa. In Abhidhamma it has explained under the Rupa from the 4 Paramartha Dhamma, Chiththa, Chaithasika, Rupa and Nirvana.

Another way is to explain, Physical world is a product of this self movement. Buddha said the four physical states, maha bootha meaning general physical states, patavi or solidness, aapo or liquidness, vayo or gases, and thejo or fire are products of dukkha. In turn all physical things arise from four maha bootha.

A small hint, there are 18,000 suttas in Sutta Pitakaya. I think a person must not study all Suttas to understand Dhamma. None of Arahats in Buddha’s period except Arahat Ananda learned all Suttas, but they reached state Arahat. It must be practiced to understand the reality. Not to understand about the world, but to understand yourself.

I am not saying that not to study Suttas. I am also doing it. But only with reading Suttas it is very difficult to understand. There are several reasons for it. The Sutta which now available is mostly conclusions of what Buddha said. With a good teacher, with a practiced meditation and also with reading “Thripitakaya” it can be done more easily.
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